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John Butler Trio
 With a new record just about to be released, John Butler is noticeably calm about clarifying exactly what 'Grand National' represents and what the reaction to it will be. "I just wanted to do the best by the songs," he says of his expectations going in to the recording of the album. "The songs dictate what they want to sound like."
The album was co-produced by Mario Caldato Jr., best known for his work with The Beastie Boys, who Butler describes as a "chill cat," adding that the vibe in the studio during the recording of 'Grand National' was really relaxed.
"I like his work with The Beastie Boys," he muses. "There's a lot of groove-based stuff on the album and I though his experience in the groove department as far as sounds go would be good."
Over 13 tracks, the album covers slightly different sounds than what Butler's fans might be used to. The rhythmic roots feel is still there, but the end product is more open, according to Butler. Not that there were a lot of pre-determined ideas about making the album more accessible - Butler comments that he feels like "another instrument in making sure that the songs come to life in the way they want to come to life" when writing his music.
"It's an intuitive thing to know when that's done," he explains, "when the song doesn't ask any more of you. They go, 'Okay I'm finished' and you go, 'Okay, cool'. When it's not done, it doesn't sound done and that's basically the song saying, 'Hey - I'm not done yet, mate. I'll tell you when I'm done. You'll know'.
"Discovering a song is like discovering a bone in the ground. You realise that if you just dust away around the bone, there's a whole skeleton. So you find a word, which is like that bone, and then go, 'Oh, maybe there's a song there' and you use your skills as a songwriter to excavate the song in its most pristine and unfettered way."
Don't make the mistake of thinking that Butler considers the process of writing an easy one. "There are times where I've gone, 'God, I've put too much of my own cerebral headspace into the song and I've somehow simplified it or dumbed it down'," he impresses. "So it's still work - it's a fine line of crafting it and staying out of it and being in your head and not being in your head and being in your heart. There's no formula of being in your heart."
'Grand National' also sees Butler focusing less on the big picture, in a lyrical sense, and looking more at the issues he admits he has previously written about very simplistically from a human point of view - something he feels is a lot more powerful than coming from any kind of specific agenda.
"Life's about a lot of things," he says. "It's about politics, it's about society, it's about the environment, it's about love and I think everything is being given its due course there. You don't want to give negativity too much energy, because you have to concentrate where you put your energy because that's what grows.
"The more I look at what's happening around me - be it love, politics or the environment - and I peel off the layers of the onion, this core issue is a very human issue," he adds. "For me, as a writer I want to dig deeper."
Still, he admits, that doesn't mean he knows what the answers to those problems are - only that writing about issues of disconnection can help him make sense of it.
"The reason why we don't work as a people is because our families don't work together and we don't feel connected with ourselves in our own dreams and passions," he enthuses. "How can we, as a collective, work together, if we're not even working with ourselves? How can you love your neighbour if you don't love yourself? How can you expect countries to live in peace if we can't live in peace with ourselves? The world within creates the world without. It helps me understand that.
"It doesn't help me create a solution," he concludes, "but it's not about creating a solution - it's about being part of a positive change, a progressive movement as a people. I'd rather be part of the solution than a liability."
'Grand National' is out Sat 24 March through MGM
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